umbrellapod
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I also like Hemmingway’s short fiction- it is very vived.
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umbrellapod
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aack! I spelled vivid wrong…please don’t hold it agianst me!
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Judy__
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My favorites at university were Maugham, Shaw, Greene and Huxley. And of course the sci-fi lot. Razor’s Edge and Of Human Bondage were quite brilliant. Hmmm, wonder what that says about my politics. 
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Fredosphere
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Critics talk about Hemmingway’s depiction of masculinity. That, plus the whole bull fighting and safari schtick, gives the wrong impression, I think. After reading Hemmingway, my conclusion was that he depicted guyness perfectly. I.e., he got inside the head of the typical, ordinary guy, in all his inarticulate solitude. Articulating the inarticulate: that was the trick that Hemmingway pulled off.
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Church
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Fredosphere said:
Critics talk about Hemmingway’s depiction of masculinity. That, plus the whole bull fighting and safari schtick, gives the wrong impression, I think. After reading Hemmingway, my conclusion was that he depicted guyness perfectly. I.e., he got inside the head of the typical, ordinary guy, in all his inarticulate solitude. Articulating the inarticulate: that was the trick that Hemmingway pulled off.
Yes, this.
It’s a bit weird, since he doing it in the voice of the protagonist (and I honestly have my doubts about how conscious he was of the whole thing) but it works regardless if you’re doing it with or without a meta-critical eye.
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I’m reading the Hench book right now. So far it’s dry as dust. But useful as history.
Fredosphere said:
Critics talk about Hemmingway’s depiction of masculinity. That, plus the whole bull fighting and safari schtick, gives the wrong impression, I think. After reading Hemmingway, my conclusion was that he depicted guyness perfectly. I.e., he got inside the head of the typical, ordinary guy, in all his inarticulate solitude. Articulating the inarticulate: that was the trick that Hemmingway pulled off.
I think that is why I lost interest in Hemingway. When I was a kid I read everything I could get my hands on. Hemingway was supposed to be good so I read him but, in the end, the “masculinity” of his work bored or offended me. In The Sun Also Rises, going to the running of the bulls, later Hemingway’s fascination with bullfighting, came to gross me out. I think it is a celebration of the torture of animals. If that is what masculinity is, glad I’m not afflicted.
Course I am not immune to cheering for justice. In these videos I cheer “KILL THEM! KILL HIM!”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJtZ80fKZUY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxFTYVI_IVU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNGGbozilko
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Judy__
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After reading Hemmingway, my conclusion was that he depicted guyness perfectly. I.e., he got inside the head of the typical, ordinary guy,
Well that’s a depressing thought. 
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elke
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alllie said:
When I was a kid I read everything I could get my hands on. Hemingway was supposed to be good so I read him but, in the end, the “masculinity” of his work bored or offended me.
Much the same for me as far as “this is supposed to be good. I’ll try it.” I agreed it was good, though. I couldn’t have described what I liked about the prose back then, but I fell in love with the protagonist from “To Have and Have Not.” This was problematic as I was far too young & sheltered for a guy like that.
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Fredosphere
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I’m thinking particularly of one of Hemmingway’s stories depicting a man camping in the woods. There’s something about the guy all alone, cooking his canned beans over a fire, that seemed so right to me, so perfect in it’s depiction of typical, average, mediocre, taciturn, lonely maleness. Yes, Judy, I agree it is depressing. That is what I think of as quintessential Hemmingway, not the bullfighting . . . but perhaps I’m sampling in an unrepresentative way. I always assumed Hemmingway’s attitude toward the senseless killing of the bullring was ambivalent, but maybe I’m giving him too much credit.
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Fredosphere
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Let me tell a family story that funny/embarrassing. My wife read The Sun Also Rises around the same time I did. Afterward, I made a reference to the main character’s mutilation (his wing-wang had been shot off in WWI) and my wife gave me a blank look. She didn’t know what I was talking about!
Admittedly, the, uh, condition is not mentioned directly–there’s one scene where the guy undresses and looks at himself in a mirror with disgust, and says something like, “of all the places to be wounded”–so, assuming my wife wasn’t paying attention in that one spot, I can see how she could have missed it.
The amazing thing is, without that piece of info, that novel is a completely different novel. That missing bit of flesh is the silent subtext of every sentence. It means every pain and pleasure the guy experiences is rendered insignificant, in light of his unspoken deficit. He’s detached, in every sense of the word.
It’s like my wife was living in an alternate universe, one in which The Sun Also Rises is not about a guy who got his wing-wang shot off in the war. She was in a state of innocence that is impossible to regain once she lost it. I think that’s fascinating, and more than a little cool, believe it or not.
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Church
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Fredosphere said:
Let me tell a family story that funny/embarrassing. My wife read The Sun Also Rises around the same time I did. Afterward, I made a reference to the main character’s mutilation (his wing-wang had been shot off in WWI) and my wife gave me a blank look. She didn’t know what I was talking about!
Guilty as your wife (wow, that sounds wrong.)
I like Hemmingway, but I tend to focus more on the efficacy of his writing (a phrase he would despise, I know.)
Hookay, so Sun Blah Blah Rises is back on the stack.
Thanks, Fred.
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Judy__
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Most (maybe all) of Hemingway’s male characters are, in some way, impotent. I think he did not understand sexuality very well. Maybe that is a male trait.
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Church
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Judy__ said:
Most (maybe all) of Hemingway’s male characters are, in some way, impotent. I think he did not understand sexuality very well. Maybe that is a male trait.
Possibly he understood it all too well.
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sungura
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Judy__ said:
Most (maybe all) of Hemingway’s male characters are, in some way, impotent. I think he did not understand sexuality very well. Maybe that is a male trait.
Church said:
Possibly he understood it all too well.
Can’t resist chiming in. I have two sons and a daughter, all of whom have read at least a little Hemingway. One son loves him (he also listens to SSS) the other son and daughter have to force themselves to finish any book of his. I have a hard time reading him because I always feel so depressed and hopeless afterward. I wonder if that is because he did understand sexuality and (not coincidentally) the human condition well?
His writing style is definitely worthy of examination and emulation but I have never been successful copying it…
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Judy__
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Hemingway did commit suicide.
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